Talk vs. Action & Saudi Men

Saudi Arabia is supposedly the country that practices true Islam. (The concept of a ‘true’ religion is problematic itself, as the very idea of ‘true’ is subjective to interpretation). Yet many tribal Saudis accept the claim that they are practicing the ‘true’ Islam. So why is it that a large number of Saudi students (men) contradict the norms of Saudi society when they come to the West? Is it that repression creates desire? Or is it because Western influences tempt Saudis to do what is considered haram?

There seems to be a double standard for Saudi men. They can sleep with as many woman as they want. Some even drink alcohol and get high with drugs abroad. In their debauched mentality, they feel such sins will be forgiven by Allah when they repent. Life will be perfect once they return to their homeland, right? Whenever I come across a Saudi with that mentality (sin now and repent later), I’m tempted to slap some sense into him. Then I realize there’s no point, because those Saudis (not all) will never doubt their indoctrination. Inevitably, they will marry a virginal wife, and they’ll give up casual sex or drinking……..but how long will such modesty last? Does one blame a hypocritical Saudi society? Or does one blame Western Neo-Liberal influence that has permeated almost all global societies?

Recently I met a young woman who told me that she frequents with Saudis. She seems to have a very negative view about them. She said very bluntly, “Saudi men only want to fuck you.” Of course, it’s a poor form of reasoning to label an entire peoples based on set stereotypes. While I agreed with her to an extent,  I also know that a minority of Saudi students are not this stereotype. I wanted so badly to tell her about my experiences with Saudis (clients) because she had no idea that Saudi men pay for sex. I wanted to tell her how Saudi men not only want sex but they also want affection. Again, my experiences may be biased. The Saudis I’ve become close too always say how sex is not the most important thing between us. They enjoy my company, and especially my affection. Often, I feel I am acting as their Mother/Wife. I empathize with them. Saudi students studying abroad are alone often. They have plenty of male friends and can easily have sex, but many want more than that.

Generally, Saudis are unlike any other clients. I enjoy learning about their experiences and their lives. Most of them haven’t been exposed to the West long enough to have ‘contaminated’ superficial minds (yet many are becoming increasingly seduced by the so-called ‘charm’ of the West). However, for the most part, Saudis are not individualistic, but rather kinship oriented. Often, Western women wonder why their Saudi boyfriend cannot marry with them. Many narratives exist to discourage Saudi-Foreign marriages, and these narratives are propagated as a ‘panic’ and a ‘duty’ for Saudis to ‘maintain’ their scarce kinship values. Dominant discourses are powerful in essentially ‘brainwashing’ naive minds into believing the state agendas are moralistic. The problem with this logic is that there is no such thing as an all-encompassing “Saudi” culture.  Being ‘Saudi’ is a modern, political identity and has nothing to do with tribalism, despite laws use the vocabulary of religion and tribalism. The indigenous culture(s) of the Arabian Peninsula have long been altered by modernity and engagement with the West.  Anti-miscegenation laws in Saudi Arabia ignore a rich history of intense intercultural relations that have always occurred in the Arabian Peninsula. But with modernity and globalization, Saudi Arabian state officials have resorted to propagating ideas of ‘losing it’s culture‘ in order to maintain their hegemony. However, the real concern is NOT about a ‘culture’ facing erosion — the real concern is about the state maintaining their exploitative power and dominance. Saudi Arabia is a modern nation-state that plays the same ‘pseudo-humanity’ game as with other nation-states: nation-states use citizenship, social hierarchies, nationalism and exclusion as strategic tactics (very unIslamic) ways of maintaining power. There is NOTHING Islamic about forbidding two believers from marrying each other. 

Yet despite the adoption of modernity, marriage differs in Saudi Arabia compared to versions of modern marriage in the West. In the West, couples are typically individualistic, which means they will marry whom they choose because family input is of less importance. But for most Saudis, they are accustomed to consider their family values with all their decisions. It’s frustrating knowing there is probably no future for the Sheik and I, yet at the same time I am also empathetic to the concept of resisting Western influence (but let’s face it, the West has already bombarded Saudi society though globalization). After all, my own culture used to practice the same form of arranged marriages, and to a certain extent, some still do. Yet social conditions and circumstances have changed, which means old traditions no longer mean the same in this new context. Inevitably, conflict is bound to arise. 

Anyway, the young woman I met brought up a good point: If Saudi Arabia as a country was focused on true Islam, then why aren’t they helping those with less? Why aren’t they helping the Palestinians, or Iraqis? Why don’t they help those marginalized in their own society, such as labourers and maids from impoverished countries? Again, people have this belief that the nation-state is a vehicle of humanitarianism, but it’s not.  Saudi Arabia as a nation-state is, again, not concerned about social justice, despite giving off this impression. I don’t think the simple Islamic ideals of social justice (through just and moral behavior, zakat, sadaqah) can coexist within the modern nation-state setting, as consumer-capitalism negates the essence of Islam. After all, Prophet Mohammed (s.a.w.) was an advocate for goodness, justice and humanity, and Islam was to solve the evils that the Quraysh had commited (greed, wealth hoarding, asabiyah, etc). The sad reality is that Islam is being negated by some Saudis, yet they try to justify their behaviour with warped interpretations of Qur’an and Hadith. Just type in ‘prostitution in Syria’ on youtube and one will find Syrian dance-halls filled with Iraqi prostitutes and Saudi clients. It breaks my heart, because these women are not selling sex for the same reasons as I. The Arab prostitutes in Syria, Bahrain, or other neighboring countries are doing it because they have no other choice. Why aren’t the Saudis protecting these women instead of just using them as pieces of meat? When I think too much about how men can use women as sex-objects at their convenience, it makes me bitter………but again I no longer blame the men. Instead, I look at how debauched societal values (based on consumerism) are so powerful at influencing norms for behavior towards others — here lies the VITAL importance in gaining knowledge (‘ilm), because one should never blindly accept what is told to them, one must always question.

On the contrary, I spent this evening with the older Saudi man I mentioned previously. I’ll refer to him as Abu Saud. I hate to admit it, but I actually enjoy seeing him. We cannot have a proper conversation because of language barriers, but somehow we manage to laugh and communicate through non-verbal cues. In his limited English, he has a tendency to tell me very personal things about himself. He repeated his home address to me, and then showed me his wallet with his ID card, which means I know where he lives and his family name. It made me laugh. All I could think was, “Why are you telling me this?” I could never imagine one of my White married clients eagerly telling me where he lives or his family name.

Abu Saud is a sweet older man. I try to suppress the fact that he’s being unfaithful to his wife. I must ignore these things, but I know it will affect me when/if I’m a wife one day.

15 Comments

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15 responses to “Talk vs. Action & Saudi Men

  1. M

    This is interesting that you say this, and I’m glad to read your article. I’ve sort of stumbled upon your site…it’s very interesting to say the least.

    I wanted to get your opinion, as someone who is dating a Saudi…let me note that he has a dual citizenship for US and KSE because he was born here. I wanted to further ask, if you think I am wasting my time? He will be here for atleast 3 more years, and although I really enjoy his company, and we share many similar opinions and humor, at the end of the day, I don’t want to get hurt and waste my emotion, bu at the same time, I want to enjoy the experience… All I mostly read online is how these students only want to do haram things, then go home and marry who their family accepts aka a muslim virgin woman… But, it just seems a bit unfair to judge all of them in this way… Thanks.

  2. Saudi man are human not angels.
    You will find them good People bad people.
    In Saudi Arabia is 60% of Saudis are young people aged younger than 30 years.
    Not all Saudis True Muslims.
    We have some People Follow Perverse doctrines in Saudi Arabia is perverse. Such as Sufis and Shiites. Who attribute themselves to Islam.
    And also there are some owners of perverse ideas That are contrary to Islam.
    But most Saudis and Muslims do not do these things And most of them did not drink wine in his life And not cohabiting with a woman other than his wife.
    Most of these Good men Do not go to the West Only if he wants trade or study Or treatment.
    And does not have time to meet girls or mixing with Westerners. These items rarely do you see in the West.
    Unlike the corrupt Saudis Who see them in places of prostitution in the West.
    In short When you go to garbage places You’ll find flies and odors.
    And when you go to a Clean place you will find beauty and smell fragrant.

    • escortdiary

      I strongly disagree with your metaphor about how in “garbage places you’ll find flies and odors” and “clean place you will find beauty..”

      The rulers of Saudi Arabia are just as corrupted/exploitative as leaders of the West. Fundamentalists with your mentality are the problem. Drinking or engaging in extramarital sex does not make a person necessarily BAD. And praying 5 times a day doesn’t imply the person is necessarily good. Instead you should JUDGE somebody on how they treat others, as this is the essence of Islam: the intention of the heart.

      This notion of ‘cleanliness’ representing ‘goodness’ is so typical of fundamentalist thinking. Who are we to judge when someone is ‘dirty’ ?? Do we ever stop to think why some get lost in ‘garbage places ?’ Is it right to condemn others when they stray off the path of so called goodness?

      Also, the very fact you speak against Sufi and Shiites says many things about you, which is very un-Islamic. Islam is a beautiful religion, but it’s ignorant people like you who give it a bad name.

      • Valentina

        This world would be only better without islam or any other strong religion. My religious clients are the worst ones. The majority of the arabian islamic men that I meet will always try to have sex without a condom, they try to manipulate in any way they can, and they have a preference for (soft or strong) violence and domination. I would say that, in bed, most of them enjoy treating a woman like shit. I can not stand any of these guys and can not understand that a woman likes them (but I can suppose that they are different with a woman of same origins and culture as them).
        Strong Catholics are not better, they would often ask me to play their daughter in bed. However, they are both very generous.

        Im sorry if I may hurt anyone, but it makes me feel better to write this :).

        Some of these men who follow strict rules imposed by any religion explained to me that they have enough of being and acting “kind” all the time. They need to be “bad”, and need to treat people in a bad way, that s what makes feel them better.

        Regarding what was written above, I encourage all people to judge others in any way, as long as they have good reasons to do so. We might all make mistakes, but there are Good people and there are Bad people in this world, it is always helpful being able to make the difference between them.

        I also apologize for my english :/.

        Best Regards

  3. escortdiary

    @Valentina:

    Thank you for commenting. I have wrote about what you mentioned once, but haven’t posted it yet. I have heard Western escorts tell me their accounts of being with Muslim clients — they often say these men are rude, disrespectful and demanding. Now, this is quite fascinating, because my personal experience is completely different. My experience with Muslim clients are often the best…they treat me very well, with respect, care and concern (beyond just sex). Why is it they treat me well, while other women often complain about them? Is it the cultural similarities, or similar ideology? Perhaps. In any event, I don’t think it is fair to demonize a person based on their religion, as it does not determine how they will treat another person. There are faults and goodness in all people regardless of race, religion or creed.

    I really want to explore this disconnect. What I have noticed is that a lot of Western escorts develop these preconceived ideas of ‘Other’ men (racial stereotypes), which thereby influences their attitude and behavior when meeting such men. There may be a mutual lack of respect on both sides, which are truly the result of preconceived stereotypes of the ‘Other.’

    Religion is not a fatalism (it does not determine how a person will act, think, or behave). Religion in essence is a moral prescription, which often has good meaning. The problem is that religion often becomes intertwined with politics and re-interpretated for political motives (fundamentalism/extremism). If you knew about Islam from an academic perspective, you would see that Islam in essence preaches social justice (respect for humanity).

  4. Penny

    This is a very interesting site and has given me some understanding of a saudi student i have staying me…..He is exotically handsome, absolutely gorgeous in fact and would love a relationship with a kiwi girl but cannot seem to make contact with one and is very shy to approach them. I am much older than him and we have a very good social relationship, he tells me constantly how much he loves me and has even suggested becoming more intimate, I do not want this….can anyone please suggest how I should handle this situation..I want him to be happy, I have no quarrel with any of his behavoir and feel he would make an idel partner for some pretty young girl who could acccept that this is only temporary…

    Penny

  5. jennifer

    thanks for your blog. i wished i read it sooner. i was engaged to man from oman. we didnt know the laws apparently gulf countries only allow international marriages between other gulf countries. it left me very hurt. he had an arrange marriage and wants me to wait until they approve me, so i will become his second wife but i said no. i deserve more than being a second wife. thanks for your blog. i really enjoyed reading it/

    • escortdiary

      Thank you for commenting.

      I am sorry to hear about your situation. I understand how you feel, as I am experiencing the same thing with my Sheik. We love each other so much, and we already act essentially as a married couple. It’s impossible for us to be married and live in Saudi Arabia, because of these cruel, discriminatory laws.

      The governments of the Gulf (GCC) feed people with this propaganda of ‘preserving’ the ‘authentic’ culture — they give this discourse of a ‘culture facing erosion.’ This is simply a tactic of control. In reality, the rulers are concerned with maintaining their dictatorship power. Regulating marriage is one way to keep power. The governments of the GCC want to control who is eligible for citizenship and the privileges that come along with citizenship. Less citizens = easier to control. The GCC countries are extremely prejudice in their citizenship laws, which has nothing to do with so-called ‘culture,’ but rather it’s about maintaining their oppressive rulers. In Islam, all Muslims are equal, and therefore they are entitled to marry each other. The Gulf laws, however, contradict this. They have silenced their people, so even if Gulf nationals want to fight for what’s acceptable (in Islam) they risk going to jail or losing their job. It’s very tragic.

      Sadly, these laws have been internalized by many national citizens themselves. It’s not only legal control, but mental too. Gulf media and religious fundamentalists try to ‘justify’ the the ‘benefits’ of marrying a national citzens, whilst showing the ‘negative’ aspects of marrying a foreigner. Again, this has nothing to do with culture, but it’s a matter of social control to maintain government power.

  6. patty

    How much respect u th7nk they need to give u when ur selling yourself, I know saudi men good saudi men who respect me, do u ever consider paying for it like slave im sure your valued as such,
    Not all saudis look for sex knowning as friend quite different by the way a saudi did marry westerner, depends if he really loves u hell introduce u to family, but having sex with them they dont respect u…

    • escortdiary

      I have no idea what point you’re trying to make. You are wrong in your stereotypical assumption. Not all men are ignorant enough to believe having sex with a woman makes her less respectable.

  7. saudi man

    thank you escortdairy for the story you shared it was interesting. I think you have a talent for writing 🙂 .

    I will be very happy to shear my point of view in this. take in consideration that I am 25 years old Saudi man and never been with an escort before, in fact I have never been with a woman before.In fact I have never been in direct contact with girls outside my family since I was 12 years old (excluding meetings for employment and such stuff).

    All the Saudi you meet, they all have different personality but almost all follow the same pattern, sometimes the wrong feedings about Islam form bad teacher at school who did not understand the basic concepts in Islam, and the emotional dryness from parents while raising there child ( making fun emotion, beating, oppression,..etc) and you can add harsh environment and other things, almost all Saudi man or woman went through that, but THANK GOD it is to disappear in the new generations (almost).

    To a point that is interesting in the previous conversations, what Saudi men mostly will think in when he meets a girl ( not an escort). Well (as I think), in our culture women are considered very soft in nature, lovely, considerate, shy, passionate, imaginative, and have a lot of heart and love to give ( it almost an ideal picture for a woman), is it true or not I don’t know really, but this is the image we built in our mind through the years away from woman, ( the funny thing is the guys who secretly contact a girls describes them otherwise 🙂 but it could be because the type of girl ). So that is why he will almost always feel safe toward any girl also maybe throw down his shell, but there is a strange point (FOR YOU) if the girl is ok to have any sexual interact with him he will loose some if not most or all respect for her, WHY? sex with other than his wife is considered a great sin in Islam, a disrespectful and shameful behavior in society. Here female who accept to sleep with a man considered as if she is degrading her self and has no respect for the Islamic teaching, herself or her family and also male will be considered as such but for female it is a bit more. (I am not saying that shaike thinks the same, I am saying that really few who think otherwise).

    for an escort:

    Here the men who has less self control and more dirty mind who built to him self a disrespectful image for girls ( type 1) , could be someone who is really damaged emotionally with a little following to Islamic teaching ( type 2 ), or a really horny guy with only a little following to Islamic teaching (type 3) are the stereotypical type who would like to go out with an escort, ( sorry, but I think you didn’t get the average Saudi guy). So if I have to guess I would say if an escort who have a good experience ones with Saudi guys are the one who met stereo type 2, and the one didn’t met stereotype 1 and 3.

    It is really hard to apply some society standards to another, as an example in the west it is considered nice and cute for someone e.g. male to have a relation with e.g female, they know it’s OK there no human live there will judge them and they are accepting it, but here (in Saudi) they know how bad society will judge them, they know what shame they would put to their family name which shared between like 10000 people inside one family, they know that they will attract the bad and sick stereotype guys or girls not to mention it is seen as a big sin in Islam and between Muslims, that is why in Saudi Arabia people who do that without any considerations of what follow their behavior considered a lot of time as bad people.

    I just want to share this with you, trying to explain more of a concept than culture.

    Thank you

    • escortdiary

      @ Saudi Man

      Thank you for commenting. I will try to give my thoughts on what you wrote:

      “If the girl is ok to have any sexual interact with him he will loose some if not most or all respect for her, WHY? sex with other than his wife is considered a great sin in Islam, a disrespectful and shameful behavior in society. Here female who accept to sleep with a man considered as if she is degrading her self and has no respect for the Islamic teaching”

      Firstly, what you said is the very unfortunate truth of certain social attitudes. This attitude is highly contradicting. Why only, then, is the woman blamed for having sex, whilst the sexual life of men does not get the same stigma? If Islam condemns sex outside of marriage a sin, then why do social attitudes only look down upon women? This is classic of a double standard. This attitude would not be acceptable in Islamic terms, as both the man and woman are equally seen as sinning.

      Secondly, in Islam, what would be considered a greater sin? Wouldn’t it be more just (in Islamic terms) for a man to marry (legitimize) his relationship with a woman he slept with? Isn’t it a greater sin to neglect a woman he’s slept with, leaving her with the social and cultural burden whilst he faces none? Here, I see a great example of how social and cultural attitudes are superseding the essence of religion — Islam has a big emphasis on helping those who are marginalized, such as slaves, orphans. The Prophet Mohammed himself (s.a.w) was an orphan, and he emphasized the importance of helping those who don’t have parents. It’s very sad to see these essences of Islam being rejected in the name of ‘honor.’

      “Here the men who has less self control and more dirty mind who built to him self a disrespectful image for girls ( type 1) , could be someone who is really damaged emotionally with a little following to Islamic teaching ( type 2 ), or a really horny guy with only a little following to Islamic teaching (type 3) are the stereotypical type who would like to go out with an escort, ( sorry, but I think you didn’t get the average Saudi guy). So if I have to guess I would say if an escort who have a good experience ones with Saudi guys are the one who met stereo type 2, and the one didn’t met stereotype 1 and 3.”

      I think you are missing the bigger picture. You’re generalization does not capture the reasonings why men are seeking prostitutes. I don’t think men can be blamed for visiting escorts. I also do not think men can be blamed for failing to follow Islamic values. There are many Muslim clients who are good Muslims. I don’t think they should be condemned for seeking the services of sex workers. What is more haram is the society, which has created the social conditions where men and women relations are in conflict. For instance, the gender norms of Islam made perfect sense in the context that it arose. But how is it possible for men and women to adhere to these ideals when the society contradicts it? For instance, many men and women are marrying in their late 20’s, 30’s now. This is evident even in the Islamic world, where young people are spending their twenties getting a Western education, then looking for a job. In this context, how can a person be blamed for having sex when they are not able to get married yet?

      I feel very sad that Muslims are influenced to feel ‘shame’ with their desires, especially if they have seen prostitutes. To me, being a good Muslim is based on how you treat others. This is far more important than habits that do not hurts others, such as having sex whilst being single. The big ‘shame’ is the state/society, which is embracing Western models of political and economic and social life (capitialism).

      I will share a great quote I saw at my university recently:
      “One of the greatest problems facing humanity is undoubtedly the problem of equitable distribution of wealth. The insatiable thirst for wealth on part of the capitalists, who are the real controllers of political power today, has reduced many a nation to a state of poverty, and regular plunder has been legalized under different high-sounding phrases such as globalisation, liberalization, and so on. Islam, on the other hand, through its condemnation of hoarding and encouragement of charity and zakat, offers a solution to the concentration of wealth in a few hands. The concept of charitable zakat in Islam is not only an attempt to alleviate poverty, but also a means of developing higher sentiments of man, the sentiments of love and sympathy toward his fellow-beings.”

      Best,

      Sahar

      • saudi man

        Thank you for sharing your thoughts.
        @escortdiary

        ” Why only, then, is the woman blamed for having sex, whilst the sexual life of men does not get the same stigma? If Islam condemns sex outside of marriage a sin, then why do social attitudes only look down upon women? This is classic of a double standard. This attitude would not be acceptable in Islamic terms, as both the man and woman are equally seen as sinning..”

        I agree.. men take it much less than a women although both human and both can sin, It is one of the bad side to our culture.

        “Secondly, in Islam, what would be considered a greater sin? Wouldn’t it be more just (in Islamic terms) for a man to marry (legitimize) his relationship with a woman he slept with? Isn’t it a greater sin to neglect a woman he’s slept with, leaving her with the social and cultural burden whilst he faces none? “

        actually if he got caught he will face the consequences equally, but the society judgement for both is different also refers to culture.

        and ofcourse tricking a poor girl who trusted a sick man, who knows what will follow her if he didn’t marry her afterwards is much much worse than having a sin with her then marry her, even if you ask almost anyone here I think he would say the same.

        ” It’s very sad to see these essences of Islam being rejected in the name of ‘honor.”

        I couldn’t say it better I liked it very much.

        “I don’t think men can be blamed for visiting escorts. I also do not think men can be blamed for failing to follow Islamic values. There are many Muslim clients who are good Muslims. I don’t think they should be condemned for seeking the services of sex workers. What is more haram is the society, which has created the social conditions where men and women relations are in conflict. For instance, the gender norms of Islam made perfect sense in the context that it arose. But how is it possible for men and women to adhere to these ideals when the society contradicts it? For instance, many men and women are marrying in their late 20′s, 30′s now. This is evident even in the Islamic world, where young people are spending their twenties getting a Western education, then looking for a job. In this context, how can a person be blamed for having sex when they are not able to get married yet?”

        I have to disagree, he will be hold accountable of what he did in front of GOD especially if he didn’t seek forgiveness, and I know that does not mean he is a bad muslim only ALLAH can judge that, he could be a good muslim who committed a sin. However I agree with you it is a tough test I mean it could be very very tough especially in this time of era not mention being at that age, ask me! I am 25 years old I live alone, not married yet and Bahrain is only 40km from my place ( it is outside the kingdom a place where a lot of prostitution there ), I know it is hard but as a muslim you have to stay still fight your erges, and this one I can almost grantee I have never seen anyone who think his desires are shame it is natural, but acting upon it is a different story.

        “To me, being a good Muslim is based on how you treat others. This is far more important than habits that do not hurts others, such as having sex whilst being single. The big ‘shame’ is the state/society, which is embracing Western models of political and economic and social life (capitialism).”

        how to treat others is one of the things of being a good but not all of it. very nice point of view, there is good and there is bad about taking the western models, the good thing is that the culture will disappear ( It is a personal opinion I don’t think our culture is a healthy one), in the same time even western culture has a lot of negatives. the bad thing is if we forgot the teaching of Islam in front of (capitalism).

  8. Alejo NIm

    I really like that you speak your mind, you dont have abias but you have clarity of thought. Would love to meet you some day and perhaps Pay for a nice conversation with you.
    I live in mumbai , India and have bsuinesses in 11 different countries whom i look at as 11 different Cultures. I love meeting new people and having a conversation that is deep , fun and insightful. Tough balance.

    Apart from English, i speak French, Spanish , Hindi and Gujarati fluently.

    Could you drop me your details in the mail below.

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